Courtesy of RunnersWorldWe did see you at the New York City Marathon on November 1. We were just wondering when you decided the first step in the direction of your trying a marathon should be the half marathon in Houston.
Shalane Flanagan: I've dreamed of running a marathon since I was a little girl, just growing up in the Boston area and going down and watching it pretty religiously just because it was a holiday (Patriots' Day in Massachusetts) and we didn't have school. I've been wanting to take this next step for awhile, but knowing I wasn't quite ready, I wanted to wait until the timing was right and I was itching to do it. So Houston, for me, after the disappointment in Berlin (the 14th in the World Championships 10,000) and just not feeling good, and then finally getting healthy, is a goal on the radar and something to train for this fall. It was something I really needed for my morale. Jerry(Schumacher) and I had talked about running a marathon within the next year; we didn't know where it would be or when. But to try and tackle some of the training initially without actually lacing up for a marathon; we felt if we did marathon training this fall, and then ran a half, that would just give us an idea of how I'm able to adapt to the training and just see what comes of it in a half without throwing myself into a full marathon.
It's interesting, because that was exactly the approach that was taken by Alberto Salazar with Dathan Ritzenhein (who took third in the World Half Marathon), wasn't it?
SF: Yeah. So when I lace up and race in Houston, Jerry has repeatedly told me he's not preparing me for a half marathon, he's preparing me for a marathon. So we're just going to see what comes from the marathon training.
Obviously there's more volume, but what really are the differences between what you've been doing for the last couple of years and this current training?
SF: I came to Jerry because I wanted to do a marathon and I felt he was the guy to help me do it. From day one, training's been different. I love it but it's just hard, hard work. What I love about the preparation for a marathon for any true distance event is there's just really no compromise in the training. There are no short cuts. It really is just getting in the amount of miles. My goal every day is to be on my feet for an hour and forty minutes to two hours a day, total running time. That is completely foreign to me. I've never done anything like that previously. Almost every workout is something I've never done before, which is just kind of refreshing and exciting. Jerry's passion for distance running is really contagious. I've just had a lot of fun learning about the event. It's great because I can improve on almost every workout because it's something I've never done before - so I can say "okay, today I ran 14 miles of intervals; I've never done that before." So every day is like a PR.
Was today 's workout 14 miles of intervals?
SF: No. The goal was to do 12, and I ended up doing 11 miles worth because I've been traveling. I've been kind of the road the past three weeks between Thanksgiving and now and finally making the move out here to Portland, and yesterday was just a really long day, so we just cut it at 11. But it was 11 miles at really fast pace for me. It was a mix of 800s and miles. It was actually kind of short for us today, but I was adjusting into the Portland frozen tundra that I arrived in.
I'll ask you this because people are asking me this. I had sort of assumed you might be making a marathon debut in the fall, but people are saying "ask her if she's doing Boston." Is there consideration being given to you doing the Boston Marathon?
SF: I love Boston and I've always loved it. I know one day that's definitely a place my heart ultimately really belongs to in the marathon. But I've been working really hard this fall to prove to Jerry and prove to myself that I can tackle a marathon. I don't really know when. I think I'm just going to listen to my body as the workouts come along, but I'd love to run Boston this spring. But I just have no idea. After the half marathon, we'll have a better idea how I come back and bounce back off of it. Not that you can ever be fully prepared for your first one (marathon), but I want to make sure that I'm there and I don't just get some pity clap because I'm a hometown girl. I want to make sure I actually compete and I'm in the mix.
There are a lot reasons for you to be enthusiastic about the marathon, but to you also think it's the event in which you can most likely get a high medal and maybe even a victory in the London Olympics?
SF: Yeah, that's always a consideration. But the marathon is the ultimate test in my mind. There's something contagious about the event. People are so passionate about it. You get, on the same day, to run with the masses, so it has that aspect about it. And then yes, ultimately, (the question is ) how can I perform the best on the world stage. To not consider it for London would be a mistake. We'll see how it goes over the next year. I hope to run one with the year and that will hopefully open up some doors and give us an idea where my best event is.
You had your own very successful experience in Beijing, but what were your feelings watching the women's Olympic marathon there? It almost seemed like a perfect storm of disasters and injuries to people who should have won it. Watching it, not to take anything away from Constantina Dita's effort, I thought "if any one of about eight people were healthy and ready, she could be winning this thing."
SF: Yeah. From what I see, there's an attrition rate. If somebody can start healthy and be mentally there, they'll have a really good shot at doing well. And I like that idea.
Doing a half marathon in January probably changes certain other things on your usual schedule. Is the trip to altitude in Mexico you took the last couple of years fitting in anywhere at this point?
SF: No. We have a decently large group (in Portland). We like to be near our coach and preparing with him. To deviate too much ... it's just too much to have a schedule for everyone going everywhere, so I think a lot of us have just opted to be here in Portland and get in the required training with Jerry and have that environment. That (Mexico) is definitely not in the plan.
So the Matt Tegenkamps and Evan Jagers (also coached by Schumacher), are they sometimes your training partners?
SF: Yes, though I just arrived. Last spring and a little this fall when I came out here, I had the opportunity to run with them. I think in November, I had the guys come out for a long run with me, and it went really well having them there. So when they can accommodate it into their schedule and it doesn't compromise their training, they're always more than willing to help out.They're just really positive and great people to have around.
Are there some women for you to training with in the group?
SF: There are not, currently. I'm the lone girl right now. I'm hoping to get together with Amy (Yoder Begley) and Kara (Goucher, both coached by Salazar in Oregon) and a bunch of the women in town.
Why did you want to be back in North Carolina for the fall and even help out with the UNC cross country team?
SF: Well, logistically, we have a condo here in Portland and we had signed an agreement with a runner to be in here until January and Jerry just said there's nothing we could do about it. Fortunately, we were able to get in here a month earlier. I think Jerry just realized that we needed some down time at home with our family in North Carolina and he knew that this being a year without an Olympics or World Championships, there are just times when you need to recharge. And for me, recharging is being in an environment where I feel I'm my best person. North Carolina, I just feel like I have this great connection, and having the university which has always supported me, the only way I feel I can give back to that is to volunteer my time.
So this fall, to recharge and regain my composure and just fall in love with running again, I just felt like working with the team and helping the new coach coming in. I felt like that was something that was calling to me. I had a great time working with the kids and working with Coach (Pete) Watson. It really just got me fired up and helped me tackle some really great training this fall. Fortunately, we were able to get into Portland a little bit early because I was really twitching and itching to see Jerry and the guys. It just kind of worked out nicely.
Was there anything you learned in the time around the young college runners that might not have been what you expected?
SF: They're just like sponges. They just absorb any little nugget of knowledge that you think is insignificant. They really flourish and love learning. They're just positive kids and really love the sport for what it's about - just self-improvement. I love being around them. They're just wanting to thrive on any bit of knowledge that I could offer.
As far as 2009 is concerned, we take it that you were really a little bit off and didn't really know what to attribute it to, and you eventually figured out you had picked up some kind of parasite in Mexico. Is that right?
SF: I think it was potentially Beijing, when I got food poisoning. I didn't know why I was just feeling off. Even right after Beijing, I didn't feel well and I kind of accepted this norm of just not feeling well, and it just figured it was this new training and adaptation and everything. It was a combination of that, and then I was diagnosed with this genetic disease (she chooses not to elaborate). It just set me off for this perfect storm of me not feeling so hot. But now that it's resolved, I'm feeling so much better.
How does one treat the parasite? Just with a lot of antibiotics?
SF: Antibiotics, primarily. And it just drains your nutritional system, so I had low iron as a result as well because I wasn't absorbing any iron that I was taking. It just kind of combines itself over months and makes things a little difficult.
You weren't feeling good, but you know what kind of runner you are. In the USATF 10,000, it looked like you were surprised when you couldn't respond to Amy Yoder Begley's move to the finish like you normally would have,
SF: I almost felt like it wasn't my body. I told Jerry after the race "I'm not a mental midget, I know how to compete, I'm very competitive and it's just not like me to just not be able to respond." Mentally, I'm there. Mentally, I know what needs to be there. And so to not have myself physically there but mentally to still be hungry, it was really hard to deal with. And that's when I started to realize things weren't right. It's just hard, because Jerry and I were beginning a new coach/athlete relationship and I would say "I just don't feel right" but I couldn't really specify why or didn't know why. It was just frustrating. But with every sport, there are highs and lows. Sometimes when you hit those lows, it just makes you more passionate.
Sometimes we forget how many things have to go right to be a world class 10,000-meter runner. Some of the problems can be mysteries.
SF: All cylinders have to be firing to be at your best and compete at a really high level. And if one little thing is off, I've learned ... and I got away for so long without any significant health problems so I didn't really know how to attack it. I don't even go to the doctor, ever. I barely even get colds. To have something just drastically wrong, and not have it say "oh my calf hurts, I know exactly what's wrong," but instead have it to elusive, it was just frustrating in general.
When did you start to feel good again and basically yourself again?
SF: Honestly, not until late October and November. I started to have that zest and a lot more energy and didn't feel so tired and drained all the time and was able to recover from just general easy runs. It's just amazing. You just take an easy run for granted, and when you finally start to feel better again, it's nice to be able to control the pace of an easy run. If I wanted to, I could run 6:00 (per mile) pace or I could run 8:00 pace. When I wasn't feeling well, it was just dragging my feet, one foot after another. Each step was just very painful.
This probably also depends on how you feel after the half marathon, but in a non-Championship year when you're looking at marathons, do you think outdoor track is going to be an important part of your year in any case?
SF: Not only am I excited to run a marathon, but I get excited with this training that I'm doing and I really can see how it can be a great complement to my track racing. And I have so many goals left on the track that I by no means will be a full converted marathoner. Not matter what, even if I were to run the Boston Marathon, I still have hopes of getting back on the track. It may not be right away, just to let myself digest all of the hard training and the racing. Yeah, I get really excited to think about getting back on the track afterwards.
In addition to talent and hard work, one of the keys to all of this, especially when you start competing internationally, is to really believe in yourself. One doesn't get the impression you've ever had any trouble with that. Even during the years when you had the mysterious foot injury, I always got the impression that you thought if you were 100 percent, you weren't just going to be an American star but that you were someone who really could contend internationally. You always had that faith in yourself, didn't you?
SF: I've always been a big dreamer, and I'm a realistic dreamer. Even when I'm presented adverse situations, I'm a really positive thinker and I think just with positivity, a lot of things can happen. I visualize daily achieving certain goals that I have. Not once in a blue moon; daily, I think about what I want to do and how I want to love my life. Because of that positivity, sometimes you're able to manifest these dreams because I'm constantly in my brain.
Beyond running itself, were you a good overall athlete, would you say?
SF: I'd like to think so. I love swimming. I love soccer. I just love sports in general. All throughout high school, I swam. I still swim to this day as a recovery tool.
The reason I asked about the general athleticism is because I did see what is now a fairly famous Flotrack video of you and your workout. I'm not talking about running you did but the other stuff. I saw it and remember saying to people "I think I know now why you're so good." For the size person you are, you obviously have an amazing amount of strength - we could see how you could support your own body weight - and the flexibility is there, too. So it's not just the cardiovascular fitness. There's a lot more to it than that.
SF: Yeah, I like to think when I'm on the starting line, that I have a pretty good chance in a dark alley (Laughs). I enjoy being in good shape. I enjoy some of the athleticism outside of running. You know, running in a straight line is nice, or even in a circle, but once in awhile it's nice to switch it up. Pascal Dobert, the steeplechaser, has been our strength coach and he's just really creative and has created some great programs for us with lifting and core strength. We just have a lot of fun. we work out for an hour and a half on our easy days with him. Not all days fly, but most days do. He keeps us really busy with ladders and hurdles. I like knowing that the dynamic aspect to my athleticism is always good.
Erin Donohue and I have this Ultimate Fighter (we follow). We've used a lot of his work and some of his circuit training. His name is Ross Emmett. He's pretty good. I think just drawing from all different sports and people creates some great programs.
Well, as has been noted, the whole scene for American women has changed. It's not just maybe I can sneak on a team" or "maybe I can keep my contract," which used to be the goal. Starting with Deena Kastor and proceeding to you and then some of these middle distance runners now, you're part of a movement in which American women's running is really world class and you really are contenders. It's just such an incredible change from five years ago.
SF: Yeah, it's refreshing. I remember that kind of old school attitude, when I first started as a professional. People just got lackadaisical and were just happy to be U.S. best. It's nice to win national titles, because that reinforces you're one of the best in the U.S. and can potentially be one of the best in the world. And that's just a stepping stone. I was frustrated, when I first came on the scene, at the attitude of just "well, I won the national title, that's about all I need to do for the year." To me, I was just flabbergasted because for some reason I just never thought that that was good enough and I'd never be happy and content with that. If I'm going to put my part of my life on hold, like having a family and stuff, I was going to go at it full load. I wasn't going to just float around. I didn't see any point in wasting my time or anyone else's time if it wasn't going to 100 percent. I love the attitude now (in the U.S.). It's just really fierce competition and it's just driving people to the highest level. And they're just not lazy. They're just getting after it.
US Club Cross Country Championships
ound an effortless 145 beats-per-minute the entire time. In 2004, he had his VO2 Max tested at 83. Lance Armstrong has been tested at 85; Pre 84.
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